Path of Exile Questions Thread - March 17, 2020 |
- Questions Thread - March 17, 2020
- Vaal areas are a good example showing that re-working old stuff is way better than adding infinite content to the game
- Still 15 FPS in delirium encounter
- I keep telling myself one of these times it wont be.
- Pearl of Wisdom
- I cant think of one good reason why delirium should be timed
- The league I think we all need
- Game designers opinion on Delerium and it's issues
- Awakener is a fucking RNG fiesta now. WTF did they do?
- You see that ground effect? It does nothing, no damage, and it persists after the mob is gone. This is what we mean when we talk about visual clutter.
- Once again one mob type missing.
- Just got married. Had my ring engraved with the one quote which will probably stay with me for the rest of my life. Stay sane exiles!
- PSA: People aren't responding to your trade requests because they are always in a timed encounter
- Mathil Discussing The Delirium Manifesto On Stream, "Can't Say I Was Thrilled"
- Delirium is a lot of fun -- by Ghudda
- I want this the most
- Development Manifesto: Delirium Improvements
- From 102 FPS to 0, this is just unacceptable at this point.
- It feels like GGG is balancing the wrong game.
- This Sub is a cesspit of negativity, and the Manifesto has been completely misrepresented
- Path of Building v1.4.164: 3.10 Skill Additions
- Servers, again?
- Delirium Manifesto misses 2 very important points: No planned solution for backtracking and no planned solution for terrible rewards for the risk we are taking.
- About improved atlas and delirium, after killing A8.
- Player Manifesto: GGG's Delirium
- Truly unpopular opinion: GGG can not cater to the "Autoloot/Vacuum" go fast types and still hold true to their vision for POE.
| Questions Thread - March 17, 2020 Posted: 16 Mar 2020 05:06 PM PDT Questions Thread - March 17, 2020 This is a general question thread on March 17, 2020. You can find the previous question threads here. Remember to check the Wiki first. You can also ask questions in the #any-question channel in our official Discord. The idea is for anyone to be able to ask anything related to PoE:
No question is too big or too small! We encourage experienced players to sort this thread by new. We'd like to thank those who answered questions in the last thread! You guys are the best. [link] [comments]  | ||
| Posted: 17 Mar 2020 05:04 AM PDT I've been playing since 2012 and it's wierd to say this about a game but... there is way too much content for a new player to handle. Even for me. I would like GGG to take a break and work on stuff that is already in the game. They have plenty to do so... PD: Legacy league was a great example too of reusing existing content. It was my favourite league by far. [link] [comments]  | ||
| Still 15 FPS in delirium encounter Posted: 17 Mar 2020 01:25 AM PDT
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| I keep telling myself one of these times it wont be. Posted: 17 Mar 2020 10:42 AM PDT
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| Posted: 16 Mar 2020 09:57 PM PDT
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| I cant think of one good reason why delirium should be timed Posted: 17 Mar 2020 06:48 AM PDT Seriously think of how much it would help, suddenly we woukdnt have a backtracking problem because you could actually take your time to kill shit and loot, we wouldnt have this dumb clear speed meta where you're forced to insta blow up packs in one click just so you dont run out of time and dont get hit. Suddenly slower builds are viable, by the way, if someone wants to play some super slow but extremely tanky build why should they be punished for not being able to do the league mechanic? Their already not going to make as much chaos per hour as the kid running around with 3k life one shotting the whole screen. Also why does GGG love making it so certain league mechanics completely fuck over certain map layouts, it's happened with legion and breach and I just dont understand it, it just makes it feel cheap and it sucks to miss out on it. Shouldnt more maps be viable? I dont want to play one map that has a good layout for delirium's dumb donut layout because when I play a map I like and the fog just ends because sorry the donut didnt like your non linear circular map its just straight up frustrating. Apart from this I absolutley love delirium, I love the theme and the monsters, the voice lines are fantastic, and the difficulty is fantastic, I've been really enjoying having real danger. Can anyone think of a good reason why they added a timer? [link] [comments]  | ||
| The league I think we all need Posted: 17 Mar 2020 02:13 AM PDT
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| Game designers opinion on Delerium and it's issues Posted: 17 Mar 2020 08:40 AM PDT Game designers opinion on POE balance issues. About me - I am a game designer and a POE veteran. Proofs My POE experience. I originally played on the standalone client and have since returned to using it for the last 4 leagues. My real playtime is probably closer to 10K. My POE account. 93 in delerium, high level accounts, alt art demigod wins ect. This post isn't going to be solely about Delirium, the current league has highlighted a whole bunch of the underlying problems that POE has but a lot of these issues run deeper than just the current league mechanic. Seen a bunch of people comment like this and I think I can help shed some light on it? The hidden issue So in POE there is a "skill" that grants permanent invulnerability, has no gear or stat requirements, no cast time, no mana cost and can be used whenever. It's so powerful that the entire game has been balanced around it for years and the outcome of the attempts to "balance" it are the reason for the current state of the game. And it is……. The logout macro. An ARPG in which you cannot die, is a boring ARPG. It's one of the chief reward/punishment cycles of the genre. Do well and live, do bad and die. It's utterly essential, utterly basic and it underpins the entire game. The game designer needs to design mechanics in which when the player makes a mistake - they die and needs to avoid introducing mechanics and methods in which the player can overly trivialize content. I know Neon got some heat for saying (I'm paraphrasing) "I want to kill players" but IMO it's the correct attitude to have. But the problem arises when you try to design mechanics that kill players, that have a perma invulnerable button and instantly be safe only which is only limited by their reaction time. The result is the game designers only real option is rapid one shot mechanics. Which leads us into the next problem - rapid one shot mechanics that the player cannot do anything about utterly suck from a player perspective. Players don't like dying, it's a punishment mechanic and a big "you failed!" so we try to avoid it wherever possible. But the designers keep adding bullshit one shot you just die mechanics whilst nerfing defensive mechanics (which they are almost forced to do in order to actually kill the players). You cannot and should not be able to make a build to be permanently safe. See this 270K one shot for evidence. The result is this offscreen, DPS meta we've seen for the past couple of leagues. If the player cannot become tanky enough to survive, then your only option is to kill the things instantly and offscreen before they get the chance to one shot you. So the designers create the Delerium league, monsters are super tanky in an attempt to stop you one shotting them offscreen, and even if you do kill them then they cast something on death regardless which will then try to kill you. Which as we've seen from the feedback, players really hate. We want to live! IMO this current cycle is really unhealthy for the game, and should be the big focus for GGG in Poe2 to fix. It's a massive underlying issue which has been present and unfixed for years. POE rewards game knowledge to an insane degree but doesn't have much space for expression of mechanical player skill. Some of the best moments in POE have been just barely surviving, dodging, juking, good flask use ect. When you live through a crazy moment as a result of your own skill it feels fantastic and it's one of the greatest moments for the game feel but the current game systems don't do much to encourage this, it's just RNG whether you live or die. When the player dies it should be a learnable moment, I did X wrong, or I didn't do Y, with one shot mechanics that's greatly reduced and players are FREQUENTLY dying despite doing the correct thing. (If the correct thing is to not interact with that game mechanic then that game mechanic is failing). If I do the correct thing and still die then that feels absolutely awful, it's a sign of a lack of player agency, and of poor design. The Solution Remove instant logout, both by macro and by the ESC menu. Find a period of time and have that be the combat window. For example - 3 seconds. When you logout - have it start a timer and only log the character out after the window ends. The player has to survive that 3 seconds in order to survive. That 3 second window becomes the gameplay window in which the game designers can build meaningful dangerous mechanics that the player has time to interact with and make decisions. Rather than an offscreen 1000mph bolt doing 15K damage have a slower effect that gives multiple decision making points. A line of projectiles thrown that stick in the player and detonates after X seconds. Detonation damage is increased by the number of spears lodged in the character. That design gives a vastly greater number of decisions for the player to make and moments in which to "outplay" the mechanic but simply isn't possible with the current game state. TL:DR - Logout macro breaks the game, resulting in design decisions that are poor and highly unpopular in order to combat it. Remove instant logout, replace it with a logout window and then you can give greater depth and meaning to combat systems. ===Edit=== This isn't meant as a I know more than GGG post. I fully expect GGG is aware of these issues and most of what this post says. Was more intended to start a discussion about the deeper side of game design mechanics, people have been posting for years about how much they hate one shot mechanics, and yet GGG keeps adding them. This was meant to show a bit about why GGG likely feels forced to add them. [link] [comments]  | ||
| Awakener is a fucking RNG fiesta now. WTF did they do? Posted: 17 Mar 2020 04:46 AM PDT The entire fight the apparition is doing his abilities and some times you just die, because Sirus decided to teleport you to the middle of the maze and there is a degen pool on it. Or my favorite death so far, Sirus teleporting me into his corridor, and then getting beamed by the circle channeled beam explosion the apparition does right at the teleport location. How am I not surprised that it seems no one tested this fight after the changes? Are we going to have to wait for a popular HC streamer to get a teleport death to even have this addressed? This, along with delirium being super subpar atm, is really killing my motivation to play this league. [link] [comments]  | ||
| Posted: 17 Mar 2020 06:43 AM PDT
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| Once again one mob type missing. Posted: 17 Mar 2020 06:22 AM PDT
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| Posted: 17 Mar 2020 10:51 AM PDT
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| PSA: People aren't responding to your trade requests because they are always in a timed encounter Posted: 16 Mar 2020 09:06 PM PDT Because every map is now a timed encounter, there isn't really any opportunity for someone to pop out and trade with you for any lower value items. I've had luck acknowledging this with something like: "Hey you're probably in a delerium encounter (or delve or lab), please message me when you are available!" [link] [comments]  | ||
| Mathil Discussing The Delirium Manifesto On Stream, "Can't Say I Was Thrilled" Posted: 16 Mar 2020 10:11 PM PDT
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| Delirium is a lot of fun -- by Ghudda Posted: 17 Mar 2020 07:34 AM PDT
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| Posted: 17 Mar 2020 08:36 AM PDT
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| Development Manifesto: Delirium Improvements Posted: 16 Mar 2020 05:55 PM PDT
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| From 102 FPS to 0, this is just unacceptable at this point. Posted: 17 Mar 2020 05:11 AM PDT
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| It feels like GGG is balancing the wrong game. Posted: 17 Mar 2020 08:16 AM PDT After reading the developer manifesto i'm just a bit aggravated at how GGG is approaching death in the game recently. Death in POE is mainly about failure to prepare, whether it's learning you should spec life nodes, or needing a bleed flask, or top end players needing to refresh their reading comprehension skills. Delirium league seems to use death as a random difficulty enhancer, like 'HA player it's hard because we randomly killed you with on death mechanic get good noob' Their manifesto comes back and slaps everyone in the face saying that on death mechanics are the issue. No GGG, when players die it should feel like their fault not your fault. It should be a lack of preparation and they should see the solution to the problem. This brings me to my other point, we know what difficulty is in poe. It's slowing down and getting less drops. You want to make delirium harder, then make it so the on death volatile mobs increase the defenses of all the mobs when you walk on their pods, or start with a high quantity and lower it. Do damage type nerf mechanics, the red ones nerf fire damage and the blue ones cold damage for the player. There are so many things to do, you just have to be balancing for the right game. [link] [comments]  | ||
| This Sub is a cesspit of negativity, and the Manifesto has been completely misrepresented Posted: 17 Mar 2020 12:23 PM PDT First of all, people have plenty of reasons to be frustrated. I think a lot of the suggestions for Delirium improvements from the community have been really excellent. I think that GGG's response to those concerns has mostly been excellent, as well, and I look forward to future changes. People latch on to specific lines of the manifesto, ignoring ALL ELSE mentioned about that topic, and GGG's proposed fixes. Examples of extremely negative cherry picking - Backtracking to get gear: GGG is Community: GGG JUST COMPLETELY IGNORED EVERY ISSUE AND THINKS WE JUST NEED LOOT FILTERS I agree that the loot filters comment is unhelpful for most of us. Loot filters are beside the issue for most players. We have our loot filter where we want it. But don't pretend like it was the only thing they said to address the issue. They have many changes in the pipeline all of which address player concerns. I haven't seen these things mentioned in comments yet, only bitching about how GGG isn't doing anything. They're doing lots of things. Regarding performance: There is an upvoted post saying to "reduce settings". That wasn't even IN the manifesto. People are just so stupid and pissed off that they think that it was. In the manifesto, all they've said is that something is broken, and they are looking for a solution which should greatly improve performance for all users. This sub is SO NEGATIVE. Do you all even like this game? I'm still having a blast, and know that it will be in an excellent state in a short while. [link] [comments]  | ||
| Path of Building v1.4.164: 3.10 Skill Additions Posted: 17 Mar 2020 02:37 AM PDT The 1.4.164 update for Path of Building is now available, containing the new skills for 3.10. This update also contains updates to skill enchantments. Support for Cluster Jewels was previously added in the 1.4.160 update. For existing users, the update is available via the usual update system; click "Check for Update" at the bottom left if the update hasn't already been downloaded. If you'd like to give me something more tangible than energy, I have a Patreon page. [link] [comments]  | ||
| Posted: 17 Mar 2020 12:56 PM PDT ^ Can't connect to instances again. Edit: Got back in after a queue, initial kick out told me I couldnt join my bestiary because my account wasnt logged in. Edit2: DC gate [link] [comments]  | ||
| Posted: 17 Mar 2020 12:17 AM PDT | ||
| About improved atlas and delirium, after killing A8. Posted: 17 Mar 2020 11:06 AM PDT
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| Player Manifesto: GGG's Delirium Posted: 17 Mar 2020 12:58 AM PDT No tl;dr. Delirium Monster DamageAs with every new league, the monster damage is way, way overtuned. We know it's coming, but still secretly hope it's not true. Why are we still repeating this? A nice example here. Juggernaut, 7 EC, Fortify, 7,7k HP. Deleted by a single attack. The map and monster must've had insane damage mods right? Right? This. Is. Not. Okay. E: There were 3 mods - extra as cold, frenzy+power charges. Can you see the charges before the player dies without slowing down, replaying the footage? Cause I can't. I still believe my point is valid, even if less so. The amount of damage for a single rare mob is ridiculous. Rewards BarWhat's the worst thing about the Delirium reward system is, that there's very little benefit for most encounters (General/Armour/Weapon... that are the majority of them), for an insane spike in difficulty. The risk vs. reward is just not there. The rare delirium encounters like metamorph, delve, scarabs... feel very nice. Extremely high rarity bonus doesn't do much, when majority of the rare items dropped are unusable and hidden by lootfilters (too soon?). I personally didn't notice the "extremely high" quantity bonus, but that's anectodal evidence. Paralysing/Wasting/Eroding/Diluting Touch DebuffsThis is a positive change. But the matter of fact is, that these are pretty much unavoidable, really unfun, frustrating, and make playing some builds impossible (e.g. RF builds with reduced recovery). If there's a way to get them, why isn't there a way to get rid of them? (stepping out of the fog is the same as ending the encounter, and the edge is not always near) Monster On-Death EffectsThese effects are just off the mark completely. Feels like you're disconnected from the game. The faster builds will go fast either way. They kill a big pack/screen, and move away, barely noticing the effect. Occasionally getting killed by it due to negligence/bad positioning. The normal builds, will kill half the pack, and then have to kite around, because the first (already dead) half, is now, killing them again. A good example of on-death effect is the reworked VD. It's bright orange, stays put for the player to notice, then starts chasing. Players might get hit the first few times, but then knows how to deal with this mechanic, and can use that skill to avoid the damage. Delirium Alongside Previous ContentThe biggest problem is having a timer in the first place. There are delirium orbs for permanent delirium, but it doesn't take away from the fact, that completing other encounters in regular maps just feels awful. If you want to talk with alva, or dear god, look at the syndicate board? Guess who takes a trip to town. This also causes significant performance problems, like having breach open during delirium, or doing legion obelisks. Saving grace is, that it's to some extent "predictable" lag. (e.g. if you can't handle the lag, don't do it - this isn't optimal way of doing things, but at least there's some solution) Delirium Item Drop VacuumingI seriously don't know how you could sanely say something like this. "Use a lootfilter, dumbass" is what you're saying. Even if players want to go fast, they do not want to die. Because of all that's happening, if you take time to pick-up loot, you're dead. And purposefully avoiding loot is, as you're saying, "not how the core game loop of Action RPGs should function." E: I don't necessarily agree with loot vacuum, but what I'm against is the reasoning, that players using stricter lootfilters will fix itself. It'd obviously be fixed if the timer didn't exist. Depth MeterDifficulty meter would surely be nice, could also be integrated into the reward system instead of distance from the epicenter, but I assume technical difficulties with this system, so I'll not probe. PerformanceI'll have to press X here. Some problems are hard to figure out (e.g. last league where only a very specific type of graphics cards was affected), but it seems that I do believe that the team is working on improving performance, but if you increase the performance by 10%, and decrease it by 20% with new mechanics, the overall feel is worse, you know? Repeat it for a few leagues, and we're in Delirium. Visibility"We have various ideas to improve visibility such as investigating improving colour grading, adding clearer effects to monsters with mods, improving skill effects and so on." The biggest caveat. There's realistically no visibility in the first place. On top of the thick fog (that's too thicc), the game receives a big saturation debuff, making things even harder to discern from each other, and making terrain impossible to read. This was a player concern as soon as they saw the league, and you've acknowledged that. Why was it released like this then? Make the End Delirium Button BindableGreat change! ExtraQAI'm sorry to be dismissive in this part, but from the past few leagues, repeating the same mistakes, over, and over, and over again, I have my doubts. This problem goes beyond testing anyway. If black on black on black doesn't work, let's try grey on grey on grey. Still sane, artists? "During our internal testing before release" - while I do believe you do testing (as a part of QA myself), the testing is, in my opinion, but not limited to:
Clear speed metaMy personal pet-peeve. If you want to slow down the game, why do you constantly keep adding timed encounters, just to force players to go faster? Either you're lying, or you don't see past your toes regarding the game in this matter. Metamorph was great in this sense. Noone was forcing players to do the metamorph ASAP, and they could do it at their own volition, at the end of the map, or whenever. Killing it fast or slow, didn't matter. Closing thoughtsOverall, I feel like the development manifesto was misgrooved. There are some good points, but I feel like many of the reasonings are coming from the wrong places. There's a communication problem somewhere, but I'm in no position to try to figure out where. [link] [comments]  | ||
| Posted: 17 Mar 2020 10:27 AM PDT At some point GGG will have to ask themselves: do we still want our strong vision of a deep core gamer ARPG? Or do we want to continue to attract players who are less and less okay with not having loot vacuum explosions, autoloot, an AH, auto opening doors, auto stashing, autofarming, autoplayingthegameforyouwhileyousleep and other more or less satirical gotta go fast feature expectations. When they create "go fast" league mechanics and attract more go fast players, the weight of expectations continues to self reinforce. With less and less willingness to do anything but "gotta go fast". They are riding the fence right now, scared to take the game back to a slower place (so they do that in POE2 to try and "please two masters") but also not wanting to lose ever more of that vision. Guys I have played POE since launch and I get to like a slower POE without newer players dictating that Autoloot, and Loot Vacuum and Auction Houses MUST HAPPEN BECAUSE WE DEMAND IT!!!! AND WE'RE RIGHT AND THE DEVELOPER IS WRONG. Sorry but the Developer in this case is right to stick to their TECHNICAL (as in they can't fucking do it) and philosophical reasoning for no loot vacuum. The tension between "get the loot that dropped" and "push deeper into the mist" is part of the gameplay loop. Now I realize that people who only pick up doctor cards and exalts will scoff at me for saying this, but I actually LIKE THAT TENSION. But I'm wierd: I liked Bestiary as well, I like gameplay and not just rote Adderall fueled repetition of exactly the same gameplay loop. The place where GGG is wrong is in continually courting "gotta go fast no time to play game, must. achieve. efficiency." players who want POE to be a god damn stupid mess of lowest common denominator features that make the game into a fidget spinner. You may now downvote me for speaking heresy against the clear speed god. But I WANT GGG to make new mechanics that aren't 100% clear speed gotta go fast oriented. [link] [comments]  |
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